KenShapiroleadscomprehensivesales,marketing,andproductstrategy as CRO fortheworld’snumberonereferencesourceforTV,movies,andgaming, Fandom. Reaching300millionfansamonth,Fandomcelebratestheirpassionswithdigital toolsets for role-playing games, Emmynominatedvideocontent,andeSportstournaments.
Winmo’s VP of Marketing, Marilyn Mead, interviewed Ken during last week’s Adweek Elevate Publishing Summit. Check out their full conversation below:
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Marilyn Mead: Can you describe what Fandomdoesandwhatitskeydifferentiatorsare?
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Ken Shapiro: Atourcore,we’reafanplatform with 250,000differentcommunities wherefansgatherto learn about and connect with theirfavoritefandoms. We offer detailed insights into shows, games, movies, so users can answer questions like, where did that come from or what is that reference?
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Ialwaysuse Game of Thrones as anexample.Iwasahugefan of the show, but it was easy to get lost and find myself Googling questions like whoareJonSnow’sparents? Whathousewashein? Themoredetailedyoursearches,themorelikelyyou’regoingtoendupon Fandom. Fromourperspective, there is such passion from thesefans. Again, we have 40millionpagesofcontent,250,000 differentcommunities, and300millionfanscomingtouseverymonth.
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Fandom’sglobal, too. Newsandsportstendtoberegional, but fromanentertainmentperspective, games and new shows, likeLokionDisney+, goglobal. Allofthisstuffhappensatthesametime,so Fandom explodedtremendouslyduring Covid.People werespendingsomuchmoretime-consuming content,whetherthat wasstreaming orgaming. Then, everyonewantedinformationonwhat they should watch or play next. Sothatiswhatweareinanutshell — afanplatformfocusedonTV,movies,streaming,andgaming.
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MM: Today, alotofthecommunities we formaren’tnecessarily based on age, gender, or other traditional demographics. Now, people connect based on shared passions, so Fandom really allows users toformcommunitiesbasedontheseinterestsets.
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KS: Ittiesalittlebitintoprivacy and alittlebitintowherethemarketisgoing, butIfindageandgendertobelessrelevant. Thisismoreaboutwhatwe’recallingcontextualbehaviors. Itdoesn’tmatterifyou’rean eight-year-old MarvelfanwatchingIronManforthefirsttime or you’vereadthecomicsfor30years,you’re bothIronManfans. There are tons of other examples, too — parents were influenced by their kids to play Fortnite, people watched Squid Games because their friends told them to…
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From an advertisingperspective, I think a lot aboutcontextual targeting and tapping into that based on people’s passion points becauseitreallyisn’taboutageorgender,it’saboutreachingthe audiences leaning into a specific experience. Fandom is acomplimentaryexperience to watchingashoworplayingagame — whoisthischaracter.What doesthisweapondo? Our users seekinformationandknowledge andthat’sreallywhatourplatformdelivers.
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MM: Iwanttotalkalittlebitmoreabouttheopportunitythat Fandomprovidesadvertisers. You’ve harnessedthepowerofthissortoffanatical enthusiasm where advertisersengagereallyspecificaudiences. Morecontextually,canyoutalkaboutthatandthevaluetoadvertisers?
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KS: WecreatedaproductcalledFan DNA, which takes our “trillion”differentdatapoints and creates uniquecontextualsegmentsto target from anadvertisingperspective. More and more content is behind a subscription wall, so it’s difficulttoreachGame of Thrones or Marvel fans. And there’s no traditional advertising within video games either, it’s not like you can grab the 32nd ad slot. Fan DNA has great insights for advertisers to understand current and future trends and how to jump on them.
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In October everyone wanted to know, why Squid Game viewership jump 5,000% over one weekend. It probably didn’t start in the US, which just proves my earlier point, entertainment is global. Wewanttobringadvertisers to Netflix and Hulu subscribers or gamers with a new Xbox or Playstation because we know what shows they’re watching and the games they’re playing.
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When I worked at Turner, we launchedSpaceGhostCoasttoCoast, partofCartoonNetwork,byitself, so I saw fans binge-watch all 10 episodes of a season then chronicle all the new characters. From that perspective, it’s really the fans that put the content out there. From an advertiser perspective, Fandom is very different from other platforms. We care less about the likes, follows, and comments. Whatsitsatthecenterofourplatform,whichisdifferentthantheotherplatform,isthecontent.
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IfI’monInstagramor Twitter it’saboutmyposts andmyfeed because that’s whatI’mlinkingto.Thisisaboutthecontent andIhonestlybelievethisis the direction we should strive for — thatopportunityisreallywhereIseeadvertiserstakingadvantageofitinavery brand-safe environment.
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MM: Sinceyoujoined Fandomyou’vesuccessfullydiversifiedanddoubled revenue across direct,programmatic, brandedcontent, and evenevents.There haveobviouslybeenalotofchallengesandopportunitiesalongtheway. Whatspecificchallenges have Winmohelpedyou and your team solve?
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KS: WhenIjoined, wehadaverysmallsubsetofadvertisers. I was tasked with bringing in more Fortune 500s, but howdoyoufindoutwheretheyare?Wherearetheyspending? Howaretheyspendingit? Are theyspendingwithourcompetitors? That’swhere Winmohasbeensuperhelpful.
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I really push my sales team to understand the competitive set. It could be anybody from IGN on the gaming side to the best social platforms like YouTube that make so much money from video. Then, we look at the advertisers that are spending and the formats that they’re spending on. Is it on video or display? Social or email? That’sreallyhowwe’vebrokenitdownandalsowhereWinmo is reallyhelpful.
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And,asIsaidearlier,abouthalfofouraudienceisoutside of theUS.Verizonisa top-five advertiserintheUS, butdoesn’texistinthe UK, so how do we find the British version? We’ve tapped into Winmo for that and it’s been super successful. And, by the way, the Verizon of the UK is BritishTelecom.
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MM: GreattohearandIwanttopointoutthatKen’steamusesaversionofWinmocalledWinmoProwhichiswhatwerecommendforallpublishers. Youcansee howmuchabrandisspending,butspecificallywherethey’respendingit, ifthey’respendingwithyourcompetitors,andwhat their share isacrossdifferentformats. Last week, you told me how Fandom decided to identify its sources of truth and that Winmo is a source of truth for ad spend and share. There are different tools you’re using to establish that, so what’s the value there?
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KS: Mostfolksareinthemiddleof 2022planning andneedtoidentify consistent, third-partymetrics. We’ve elected to work with Winmo to identify tracking. Specifically, are we gaining share on our competitors? Are we getting the right price points? Where are we winning and losing? When you establish a source of truth you’re establishing a baseline. Winmo is our baseline for all of this information. When I look at the end of Q1 and our goals, we’ll be able to track it against our competitive set.
KS: Iwouldn’texactlysay Fandomisstealingit.Iwould say that digitalisstealingit and,asaresult,Fandomcapturesaportion. Video is transitioning at an accelerated rate with digital channels, sowe’retryingtocapturethat. It’sbecoming an evenbiggerfocus aswemoveinto2022because sight,sound,andmotion,haveabiggerimpact.Andwe’reabletothendocontextuallytargetedinformationordatapointsonvideotogoalong.
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MM: How is Fandom approachingautomation? Howdoes Winmohelpwithpartnersthatarebuyingprogrammatically?
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KS: That’sagreatquestion. Wewanttobeabletodeliver.However,ifyouwanttodothings from a programmaticperspective,withmoreautomation,we’reabletodothat. We tracktheamountofdirectIObusinessversusprogrammaticbusiness.And areweabletodeliverandstealsharefromthatelement?Winmo helps usidentifythosetwodifferentbuckets.
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MM: Oneofthesubjectsyoutouchedonishowthefanswilljumpintotheirnicheanddissecteverythingaboutthatsubject,doyouconsidertheinformationprovidedbythem avaluableresource for platformbuilding?
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KS: Oh,100%.That’sthecoreofourcommunity. Thesefolksdothisbecausetheylovethecontent. Thestigmaof the passionatefanbaseisgone. Inthepast, it was like, these people only come out of their basements for Comic-Con, but I look at it no differently than wearing a favorite player’s jersey to a football or baseball game. Thereismorecontentbeingcreatedeverydayin entertainment and gaming and onlyacertainamountofNFLteamsandNFLgameseveryyear. I love football, but there’s a cap to it. We have AppleTV, Paramount+, and Hulu. Then there’s Activision Blizzard and Square Enix, so it’s just endless.
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Thefansarethebackboneof our platform. They’re the ones that have created 40millionpagesofcontentandtakesuchprideintheaccuracy. There’snoagenda. It’snotaboutgettinglikes, soit’sdifferentthan traditionalinfluencers.
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Asnew content comes out, wehearaboutexecutiveproducers goingto Fandom. TherewasaStarTrekmoviethatcameoutacouple ofyearsbackand a producer was quoted in the press saying, Ihad to goto Memory Alpha,the Star Trek community, tomakesurewearedoingeverythingauthentically. We’vechronicledeveryStarTrekmovie, televisionepisode, and character — thisisthekeytoourplatform. Andwe’retheonlypeoplethatcanbringthatinformationtothefanbase.
KS: It’snumberone that youhavetorespecteveryone’sprivacy. It’s why I think age and gender have become less important. It’s going to sound cliche, but the heart of our platform is our Fan DNA. The ability to deliver the right message to the right person at the right time is so valuable. Ifyouhappentobeafanof GameofThrones, we know there’s a prequel coming out on HBO Max. How do we get that insight to the fans?
KenShapiroistheChiefRevenueOfficeratFandom. Priortothat,hehadanextensivecareerinthemediabusiness,formerlytheVPofClearChannel Outdoorand an 18yearveteranofTurnerBroadcasting. As theSVPofTurner Digital, KendroverevenueacrossbrandsliketheNBA,CNN,andAdultSwim.
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